A noble sacrifice

57 points · 7 comments

submitted 6 years ago

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LeDore85 · Commenter of the Day · 3 points · 6 years ago

Because illegal aliens can vote.

pokematic · 1 points · 6 years ago

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jun/19/noncitizen-illegal-vote-number-higher-than-estimat/
You'd be surprised. It's hard to get a good number, but voter fraud by illegal immigrants is a quite a thing.

LeDore85 · Commenter of the Day · 3 points · 6 years ago

They don't even cite their source, which is usually a big red flag.

When you look for Agresti in gscholar, you don't find his article on 2008 election which means it was never published,. And while the author works on stats, he doesn't really publish about this kind of statistics analysis but on statistical physics.

The only published article on elections is about the 2000 Florida Ballot, where he 'shows' that overvote and undervote likely compensated the Buchanan misvote phenomenon which makes it a 'tie' for Bush and Gore. But it basically says the opposite of his conclusion.

This should make you very careful about this person's work on elections.

If you search a little bit further, you can find the article on which the 2008 study was based and while it's already more conservative than Agresti's, you'll see that there is at least a lot of scientific criticism on the validity of the survey since it's based on a very small subset of empirical data. There is a Standford article about that for example (the only answer to it is an unpublished working paperby the original authors).

The scientific consensus is that while alien voting can be interresting to study, the numbers shown in these studies is extremely inflated and alien voting is either very small or negligible.

cicero101 · 5-Year Club · 0 points · 6 years ago

Let's just be like California and create ways for illegals to vote, because it's not like a citizen right or something

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/california-motor-voter-act/

LeDore85 · Commenter of the Day · 2 points · 6 years ago

The article says that it doesn't allow them to vote since you need to bring voter verification, you can try to fraud it but that's a way more traceable fraud than just being able to vote by turning up with a driver license.

Except for local elections, but that's another question.

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cicero101 · 5-Year Club · -1 points · 6 years ago

My point is that twelve states plus the district of Columbia allowing voting with Driver ID and the point you made is "voter verification" based on the Real ID Act, right? (well; https://www.dhs.gov/real-id )
So you have an overlap of states who do both allow Driver ID and don't require verification.
To top it off, the high autonomy of US states (compared to states of European countries) makes both laws and documents extremely diverse and from a bureaucratic viewpoint extremely flawed.
If you add to that all the regular kinds of election fraud and flaws, you have such a high uncertainty rate that (slightly switching topics now) foreign influence seems miniscule i.m.o.
And that is why I for example do not care about the Russian collusion theories. Many countries did it, first coming to mind are the connection between Arabic countries and the H.C. campaign.
And the US also influences other election - their puppet states, occupational and provisional governments not even included.

To sum it up:
The US voting process has a high margin of error and laws have to be far more uniform, especially in how they are executed.