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entauri · 13 points · 3 years ago
I don't understand the voting ID controversy. Do people like function without any ID? Do you not need it for gibs or picking up anything at post or literally any bureacracy memery?

Hatshipuh · 3-Year Club · 4 points · 3 years ago
Afaik the issue is many places require a special voters ID that's not so easy to apply for. I don't understand why not just use the normal ID everyone already have.

Bright0001 · Experienced · 3 points · 3 years ago
Same dude. A system where you don't need an ID seems ridiculous to me from the get go. "But all the brown people without an id!!12?" isn't really an argument against the necessity of IDs, but a marker that there are other problems to be solved independently of it.

casonius · 8-Year Club · 5 points · 3 years ago
That is the left-wing position. There's nothing inherently wrong with IDs, but having to pay for them is really just a convoluted form of poll taxing, which is illegal, especially considering that many poor people have no other reason to own an ID. And if you believe all people should own IDs, then why not make them free?

I've never heard a lefty say they're fundamentally against identification at voting stations, maybe some 15-year-olds on Tumblr are, but I don't base my views on what some kid says online. What the left actually says is that mandating IDs while IDs cost money inherently ties voting access (ease) to economic status.
Which is precisely why poll taxes were made illegal.

Lurker__sama · 3 points · 3 years ago
Wait, ID aren't free ? Do you need to pay for litterally everything in the usa ,

Bright0001 · Experienced · 1 points · 3 years ago
"People can't afford IDs" seems very far-fetched, given the fact IDs are valid for 8 years and mostly cost less than 50$. We are talking of "saving up" around half a dollar every month, even beggars should be able to do that.

And I have no strong opinion on whether mandatory IDs should be free: In the end there is nothing "free" and we will pay for them one way or another.

casonius · 8-Year Club · 0 points · 3 years ago
I never said they cant afford IDs, but telling a person that lives paycheck-to-paycheck that they need to pay 30 bucks so they can go vote is naturally going to cause many of them to say that those $30 could be spent on more urgent matters.
Especially considering the fact that gerrymandering and the electoral college as well as the winner take all system leave many people believing that their vote doesn't really matter.

And all of this is supplemented by countless other regulations designed to specifically bully poor / black people out of voting and reduce their voting power.
E.g. gerrymandering or removing voting stations in black areas even though they're already overwhelmed, and then pushing regulation that criminalizes giving water to people who stand in line to vote for hours.
People stood in line all day until closing at which point they were told they had to vote by mail because the station was now closed.

Of course people could still travel an hour to go vote, then stand in line for 3 hours, and then their vote goes into the district that's specifically carved to include all the poor black people so all their voting power gets confined to 1 district, but naturally some of them are just gonna say "what's the point?", and that's the point.

fertybrando · 7-Year Club · 2 points · 3 years ago
all your talking points are so fake dude, you've literally done zero research into any of your claims lmao. That "giving water to people" thing was totally debunked and it's almost always been illegal to bribe voters. If you wanted water so bad why didn't you bring any? If you open up the floodgates for people to give people in line free stuff you are literally opening people up to be bribed.

If trump was flying from line to line handing out free water bottles to every single person in line and shaking their hand you probably would've started screeching and burning things down

Those same people living "paycheck to paycheck" are almost certainly driving to work... Which they need a drivers license for... which is ID. You're talking about like 1% of 1% of people. Even if this group of people existed in significant numbers, which they don't, then the push should be for free ID, that way both sides get what they want. But outside of a discussion like this one I've never seen a single news station or reporter or democrat position that even suggested the idea of free ID because it has nothing to do with money or poor people. They don't want ID because that makes fraud more difficult, and then they wont win anymore.

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fertybrando · 7-Year Club · 1 points · 3 years ago
they literally do and almost every news report straight out called ID for voting is racist and a political ploy.

HammerHeart · 7-Year Club · 0 points · 3 years ago
How much do they cost? Because if it's like 5 dollars your whole argument is shit. We pay a small tax in eastern-europe and we're poorer than your average nig.

Wazzupmon · Early Member · 9 points · 3 years ago
The problem is not voter ID itself. The problem is that Republicans have a dirty trick up their sleeve, which is that they make it harder to get a voter ID in districts with a lot of black people. They literally just add requirements to make it less appealing to get, so many don't bother. Republicans have explicitly said that this is their strategy, and it's appalling. I'm all for rolling out mandatory voter ID, but everyone should be able to get it free of charge and with as little administration as possible.

realDonaldTrump · Verified · 4 points · 3 years ago
wait is there a special ID just for voting?

Wazzupmon · Early Member · 3 points · 3 years ago
https://www.ncsl.org/research/elections-and-campaigns/voter-id.aspx Not exactly, but every state has different laws about what you need to bring with you, so the procedure is very complicated in some states and quite easy in others.

brainyrs · Poster · OP · 1 points · 3 years ago
Why not use a passport/ ID?

Herrodere · Wise · 1 points · 3 years ago *
Well, they need i.d. to buy alcohol, why not use that?

entauri · 0 points · 3 years ago
what exactly are those requirements?

SilverTalon17 · Poster of the Year · 2 points · 3 years ago
IQ test

entauri · 0 points · 3 years ago
nvm i found this https://www.dmv.org/id-cards.php
What is the blackest place i can check?

casonius · 8-Year Club · 1 points · 3 years ago
Having to pay for an ID that serves no other purpose for you than voting thereby literally decreasing vote accessibility for poor people.

vs.

Getting a free way to show you've received medical treatment that massively decreases your chances of infecting people around you

Kev1871 · Commenter · 2 points · 3 years ago
then the solution for problem 1 is to make the ID free of costs (at least for poor people) and not destroying every effective way to prevent voter fraud.

HammerHeart · 7-Year Club · 1 points · 3 years ago
No, the solution is to accept any form of ID and not inflate the prices. I mean comeon, an ID should not be more than 5$, it's just piece of plastic. If you don't care enough to have an ID maybe you shouldn't cast your stupid vote.

Kev1871 · Commenter · 1 points · 3 years ago
correct

casonius · 8-Year Club · 1 points · 3 years ago *
That is correct yes, and that is exactly what the entirety of the left is saying. Except Republicans refuse to do that because then (mostly black,) poor people could vote more easily. So instead just keep increasing the "voter fraud" regulation.

Sidenote: voter fraud is actually a massive non-issue. Because a singular vote or even a few hundred votes are worth ***-all in American Politics, yet the punishment is extreme. Every research into it just comes back with insanely low numbers:

- In 2014, a study found 31 credible instances of impersonation fraud from 2000 to 2014, out of more than 1 billion ballots cast.

- Two studies done at Arizona State University, one in 2012 and another in 2016, found 10 cases of voter impersonation fraud nationwide from 2000-2012.

- Another found incident rates between 0.0003 percent and 0.0025 percent.

And all of these were done before Republicans pretended it was an issue so they could stop black people from voting.

fertybrando · 7-Year Club · 1 points · 3 years ago
your argument is so fake. More black people voted for trump than virtually any republican in history. Virtually nobody with any credentials is trying to stop black people from voting. They are trying to prevent voter fraud by requiring identification to vote to prove you exist.. You need it to drive, buy alcohol, go to a bar, buy cigarettes, and plenty of other random things, but not to vote. which is ridiculous. Vote fraud is actually a pretty huge issue in the last election which some states seeing fraud in numbers well over 30,000, and I don't pick that number cause it's the biggest but because it's one im sure of off the top of my head. Your "studies" are intentionally bias and lying to you and leaving out the biggest fraudulent ballot in american history.
It's only natural after rampant fraud that people install some more reliable form of proof of ID rather than, "i wrote my name", which family members can and regularly do for other members of their family who have no knowledge of the vote or aren't even alive anymore.

casonius · 8-Year Club · 3 points · 3 years ago
Trump got more black votes than any Republican while still massively losing the black vote lol. So yeah if he stops 100 people from voting he might lose 12 votes but Biden loses 88, so who's better off there?

But yeah good that your own research is "well all those studies are fake because 'it's only natural'" Really summarizes conservative thinking in 2021. You can't debatelord your way around the fact that all the research disproves what you're saying. Just say you're too stupid to understand academia and let the adults talk next time.

But yeah, I'm sure those studies from 2014 were planted to make sure Biden won in 2020.

fertybrando · 7-Year Club · 0 points · 3 years ago
Are you even aware of the latest court case in what was it, Georgia, with 13,000 votes with the same name? Or during the last election the 30,000 votes with no address from a city that didn't have that many registered voters? You want to pull some "broooo some clearly incomprehensive study from 10 years ago says there was only like, one case of fraud ever bro, so like, fraud just never happens"

Are you even aware of them kicking out the count watchers, lying about bursted pipes so they could continue watching without oversight, people caught on camera marking votes, the voting machine that counted more votes than was possible in that time frame, the windows being boarded up and truckloads of unknown votes being ushered away with watchers being unallowed to watch or observe, are you aware of any of these things? Of course not because CNN told you about a totally legit study that said voter fraud only happens 1 in a million votes. Yeah Cuba and Russia released some studies just like that too, mind blowing stuff

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SilverTalon17 · Poster of the Year · 1 points · 3 years ago
Damn i didnt know you had to pay to get an ID

Tranek · 4-Year Club · 1 points · 3 years ago
truth

BloodxNinja · 0 points · 3 years ago
So let me get this straight, if you and an unvaccinated person both get Covid-19
And you both develop phlegm in your throat.....
AND YOU BOTH SNEEZE AT ME

You are ***ing telling me that you wont infect me and the other guy will?!

That is some crazy ***ing shit, who told you that =_=

casonius · 8-Year Club · 3 points · 3 years ago *
What? This is barely even a response to what I said. You're immediately shifting the goalposts.

Your argument is like saying that smoking doesn't cause cancer because you can get cancer without smoking and you can smoke without getting cancer.
We're talking about increased chances across millions of people, not the vaccine guaranteeing safety for all and not being vaccinated guaranteeing immense Covid suffering.

But okay, I'll explain:
1. I already have a decreased chance of getting Covid so starting off with both of us being sick is already a biased question.
2. The vaccine's primary strength is not necessarily reducing your chance to "have" the virus, but it's symptoms, so I have a massively reduced chance of sneezing at you, even if we both have the virus.
3. The vaccine also increases the speed at which you fight of the virus. So maybe some unvaxxed guy and I both have it, but we don't see you until next week. Statistically speaking, I'm more likely to have already overcome the virus, so when I sneeze on you, you won't get Covid.

So yes, technically, if both of us have Covid (which I have a smaller chance of getting), and both of us are equally symptomatic at that exact moment (even though I am less likely to get equally severe symptoms and my illness will be shorter), and both of sneeze at you, you are AFAIK equally likely to get infected.

That does not change that outside of your made-up examples which includes a lot of assumptions and conditions, a.k.a. in the real world, vaccinated people are far less likely to infect people than unvaccinated people.

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